Actor Troy Kotsur on the Culture Pop Podcast

Steve Mason: 

On this episode of the Culture Pop Podcast, we are joined by actor Troy Kotsur, who is the first deaf actor ever to be nominated for an individual Screen Actors Guild Award. He is one of the stars of this year's Oscar front runner, CODA. Troy, thank you so much for doing this. 

Interpreter: 

Hey, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me being a part of this. 

Steve Mason: 

You know, we absolutely love this movie. Re-watched it over the weekend, such an emotional experience. My partner watched the movie, just loved it. He watched it for the first time. You've got such a long career as an actor, what does a role like this mean to you? 

Interpreter: 

Really, it means that I just wanted to show that Frank Rossi, as a character, has emotion, just like everyone else. It's, whatever your experience is as parents, whether you have a deaf or hearing kids, it's just something where you have a relationship with a son or a daughter. It doesn't matter if they're deaf or hearing or Down syndrome or you name it. Just the point of the story is about that relationship and those emotions that happen. And so, I have a daughter who's a junior in high school and I'm not ready to let her go yet. 

Sue Kolinsky: 

Yeah. I mean, that, to me, was the beauty of the film. That it could have been about anybody, you know? It didn't have to be a deaf family, that's what came through. The only difference is that you had a daughter that you had to rely on for your livelihood and that was the big, big difference. 

Interpreter: 

Absolutely. Exactly. I think there's a lot of people out there that don't really know what the life of a CODA is like. My daughter, she's a child of deaf adults. So, her friends, they seem like they don't really understand what her experience is as a CODA, which is frustrating. But then, this film coming out is great and that's an opportunity to portray what it's actually like to be raised as a CODA with a deaf family. And so, you're bridging the hearing and deaf world with our film, which has been wonderful. It's been a very unique production. 

Steve Mason: 

So, for this movie, you and your family are commercial fishermen. You're out on that boat and you're doing all the stuff that fishermen do. How did you learn that world? 

Interpreter: 

I had never fished and I went water skiing growing up, and I was barefoot in the water, but I had never fished. I'd been in a lake in Arizona growing up and obviously, I'd never seen any whales in that lake, right? They don't live in lakes. 

Interpreter: 

So, when I got this role and I had to become a fisherman, there was a very strong fishing community out there and I had to really socialize with them and integrate their clothes, their behavior, how they walked. How they wore these thick gloves out on this open water to protect their hands, of course, from hooks or getting cut as they're gathering in these sea creatures. 

Interpreter: 

It was really fun for me to become this character. As much as I could dive in as a fisherman, and it was amazing, but to be honest, I never eat seafood. I'm not that kind of person and I really don't like eating seafood. But, it was fun for me to play this character and to just move forward and dive in. It was an amazing experience. 

Sue Kolinsky: 

So, how much did yourself and your deaf co-stars have involvement in the film? Were there things that you had to let the director know, "This isn't really accurate to our world"? Talk to me about that. 

Interpreter: 

One great example, I'll never forget this moment, is when they were setting up the furniture in the deaf character's home, in the Rossi family home. We had an ASL director, a director of ASL, who was Anne Tomasetti and another one called Alexandria Wailes. And so as ASL consultants, they were there, and Marlee too, and said, "Hey, this furniture set up is not deaf friendly. It wouldn't be how a typical deaf family would set up their furniture." 

Interpreter: 

Imagine, if you're hearing, you could sit side by side and not need to look at each other while you're speaking. You can just use your ears, but for deaf people, we prefer to be opposite others so we can see each other and just communicate comfortably. So, they had to make that adaptation and that change on set. 

Interpreter: 

And the script. Sean, our director, had written our script in English and had brought that in. There were some ironic jokes in English, which really don't land in ASL. So, I'd say, "Hey, can I try this from a deaf cultural perspective? I think I understand what your intent is of the joke. Can I try a few options?" Not realizing that it might be much further than what was intended when it was written, but it was a beautiful way of working through that process with our director. 

Interpreter: 

She was so sensitive and respectful to our deaf culture. She wasn't like, "My way or the highway." She was so flexible and willing to work with us. We were able to share as much as we could give to the value of the final product. But, really, we had plenty of fun doing it and it was such a nice experience. 

Steve Mason: 

You've got a scene in this movie where your daughter, played beautifully by Emilia Jones, she's got such a great voice, sings. You sort of hold your hands on her throat to feel what that music sounds like. How does music feel to you? 

Interpreter: 

I'll be honest with you. When my daughter, whether in this film or my daughter in real life, as far as the audience reaction, I would depend on the audience reaction. That was throughout my life. So, my daughter, I remember when she was about five years old and it was the first time she sang. I didn't really care, I went to one of her recitals, I just wanted to see my daughter. But, I saw my sister-in-law crying. 

Interpreter: 

I noticed that and I said, "Hey, why is she crying?" She goes, "Your daughter is so sweet. She has such a beautiful voice." I said, "Huh." That was something maybe I had missed. Again and again, I would go to my real life daughter's recitals and now, my daughter is actually learning how to play guitar and piano and the flute. 

Interpreter: 

And so, I feel like that's her world, but I'm curious about it. How do I know if she's good or not? I would always have to depend on other hearing people and if they love what she's doing. If I see someone sleeping and another person texting, that means my daughter sucks and she's not very good at singing. So, that's how I'll know. It's really important to me to kind of gauge their reactions and borrow their reactions of hearing the emotion behind the music. 

Interpreter: 

That kind of helped me, as the character of Frank Rossi, understand Ruby, if she's talented at singing or not. That's what led to that moment, was Frank Rossi's curiosity and wanting to unveil the mystery of understanding his own daughter. Really understanding and delving into his daughter's singing. That really helped me understand this character better. 

Sue Kolinsky: 

Yeah, because there was that scene when you and Marlee pull up to her high school to pick her up and the music coming from your car is very, very loud. She's embarrassed by it and she turns it down and then you turn it up, because you say that you like gangster rap because of the bass, because of how it feels. Is that accurate? 

Interpreter: 

Yeah. I have to admit that all over the deaf community, they all love the vibrations from drums, the pounding of the vibrations of the drums. So, I have to tell you that, and I'll never forget this. My daughter and her friends, they come into my home and they came in at late at night, maybe around 10 o'clock at night. 

Interpreter: 

They were playing music and so I told them, "Can you turn it down?" And they didn't care what I said, because they knew that I was deaf and they knew I couldn't hear the music. An hour later, sure enough, the cops showed up and they knocked on our door. I opened the door and the cops were talking to me and I said, "What is it?" They said, "The music is too loud." I smiled and I said, "Come here." 

Interpreter: 

The cop came with me, went upstairs to my daughter's bedroom and opened the door. My daughter was singing and dancing and looked over and saw two cops in her doorway saying, "Shh. Hey, turn the volume down." I was like, "Hey, it's not my problem any more." 

Sue Kolinsky: 

Oh, that's great. 

Interpreter: 

That was a great experience. 

Steve Mason: 

So, you got to work with Marlee Matlin in this movie. She is, I mean, an Academy Award winner, she's a trailblazer. I mean, she's a legend. What was it like working with her? 

Interpreter: 

I remember when I was younger, I was 17 years old and I was in high school. And I saw Children of a Lesser God and it was extremely inspiring to me, because it was the first time I saw an authentic deaf role portrayed on screen. At that point, this is 35 years later. So, through the years, yes, it was inspiring. I was really hoping that I'd be able to work and I struggled and I really had to focus on the stage. 

Interpreter: 

That was a friendly zone for me, where it was an opportunity for me to show my work and have those experiences and grow as an actor. And so, until CODA emerged 35 years later, I finally have an opportunity and an honor to work with Marlee, who is my wife in the film. We had a love scene, a love-making scene. I had to do a love scene with an Oscar winner, imagine what that was like. She told me, she goes, "Hey, you're my first deaf sex scene. You're the first deaf guy I made love to on screen." So, I felt honored in that way. 

Sue Kolinsky: 

I know people that know her and they say that she's very funny and has a very dirty sense of humor. So, were there any hijinks working on the film with her that you can share with us? 

Interpreter: 

We would kind of work together and we would improv different options for certain lines. And so, when I wasn't in the shot, I'll never forget it. I was making a baked potato and it looked like a dick with balls. I was showing the cast while they were shooting and Marlee was making this facial expression like she was disgusted and that rawness was actually captured. But, I felt like we were a real family working on set. We understood each other, we were able to joke around and what we put forward was really best for the picture. And it was honest, what you see in the film. 

Steve Mason: 

What's the first thing, the movie or TV or play that really made you want to be an actor? That made you say, "Yeah, I want to do that"? 

Interpreter: 

When I was younger, I think the most inspiring moment was in the movies, to dive into that fantasy. When I first saw Star Wars, it blew my mind and I was eight years old and I saw it 28 times in the theater as an eight year old. Because there was so much going on visually, it was so colorful. The costumes, the aliens, all of the spaceships. As an eight year old, there was so much going on. 

Interpreter: 

Remember, I'm watching this film without closed captioning. I'm watching it without access, because this is back in the seventies. So, keep that in mind. Today, I see a big change. Finally, with CODA, you have complete access, with subtitles for everyone. It's really exciting to see the audience be able to react simultaneously, whether they're deaf, hearing or hard of hearing. 

Interpreter: 

They're able to all react at the same moment and laugh and cry together and share these emotions together. It's not very often that I've seen that. I've not seen that growing up. I am a movie freak, just to be honest with you. I love film, I love movies and that's why I became an actor, but I know that what is good and what is bad. It doesn't matter if I hear it or not, but you can see the acting, you can see how the actors put forth these roles. Yeah, that's the short of the long. 

Steve Mason: 

Given that you love Star Wars, it must have been amazing getting that part in The Mandalorian and becoming part of the Star Wars universe. You played a Tusken Raider and you even invented a fictional sign language. What was that experience like? 

Interpreter: 

Absolutely, it was so exciting. I think what's interesting is we had to make sure that it was clear that the Tusken Raider doesn't use ASL. The Tusken Raider doesn't use American Sign Language. A lot of hearing people don't know that. I wanted to put that aside and focus on Tusken Sign Language, because this is their desert environment and their costumes and their clothing and their culture and religion. All of that plays a factor in their language and their sign language and their gesticulation. 

Interpreter: 

So, when the director and producer, when Dave Filoni and John Favreau and all that. Whatever they were deciding, it was really an honor to share that and share what I had created with them. And I'm really happy that they trusted me with that. We were able to bring something different and invent this new form, this Tusken Sign Language, which I think really made a big difference in the final production. 

Sue Kolinsky: 

Yeah. In the last couple of years, it's been more prevalent that we see signers on newscasts. It looks like there's so many different styles of it. Sometimes, I'll watch it with my husband and it's like someone is being very emphatically physical. Then sometimes, somebody is just being small with it. Do you ever notice people saying things that aren't accurate in their translation? 

Interpreter: 

Well, wow. This is a damn good question, Sue. Thank you. Just what you said. There's all different types of styles, whether it's East Coast, West Coast, North or South, all over the United States. It's parallel to 

accents or vocal inflection. So, you might have a Southern accent or Northeast, you might talk really fast, or you might have all of these different types of inflections and accents. So, that is similar with American Sign Language. 

Interpreter: 

It's amazing, because many people don't realize that there's different types of signing and styles of signing. But, the bottom line is that the concept's the same. When these interpreters are popping up in these news broadcasts, I've been thrilled, because I have to admit that it's thanks to COVID, it's thanks to the pandemic that, actually, there's been more access to ASL. 

Interpreter: 

What's happening is the interpreter has to be up there with these state governors and all of these announcements. So, ASL has been visible throughout the pandemic. So, been one amazing part of it, is the impact of the pandemic in bringing ASL forward. So I think it's somehow been the right time for us, too. 

Sue Kolinsky: 

I was talking to Steve before we got on the air, that I watched this documentary called See What I'm Saying. It does a depiction, it has five different deaf performers that it follows throughout the film. It's so lovely and so moving. There's one guy in it, he's an actor, Robert DeMayo, he's absolutely charming and extremely talented. He was falling on hard times and a friend of his let him live in a room in his place. 

Sue Kolinsky: 

They were having a conversation and the guy was hearing and he was doing some kind of moderate sign language with him. Robert wasn't exactly getting what the guy was saying. He was saying something about The Beatles, but Robert kept on thinking it was beetle like a bug, right? But, he said to the guy, "I get it. I get what you're saying." But, in interview, he shared that many deaf people say they understand when they don't. Have you ever come across that? Does that ring true for you? 

Interpreter: 

Through the years and throughout the nineties, I've seen some adjustments. I realized that sometimes, you have to adjust to a specific situation and you have to have the right interpreter too. Because I've had times where I've had different interpreters and they have their own voice, or they don't interpret exactly what the person said or what the deaf person signed. It just doesn't match up and there's communication breakdowns. 

Interpreter: 

Because the interpreter right now, during this interview, I'm using this interpreter, Justin, because I've been working with him for a while. And he knows my character and my style. He can kind of read what I'm thinking and be familiar with my jokes. He's known my experience in film and stage and so, he's grown with me. If we put another interpreter in this situation, the interpreter wouldn't know anything about my background. So, how can this interpreter speak for me? He could make me look stupid. 

Interpreter: 

My point is that, with interpreters, you have to make sure that you stick with an interpreter. So, you understand why Marlee Matlin has had the same interpreter for so many years. Because they know each other, they have a relationship and he knows her work well. If there's a stranger coming in as an interpreter who doesn't know anything about me, it might make me look inarticulate. It's a very sensitive subject. 

Interpreter: 

So, now that I happen to be breaking into show business and being in the spotlight and getting all these nominations. I have to be very careful about getting the same interpreter and getting someone who knows me and I know them. And we have a relationship and we could play golf, or we could joke around. It becomes a personal relationship, so that the two voices become one and the sign language and the voice working together. It's so important to me. So, maybe you understand why Marlee has used the same interpreter for so long, if you see what I mean. 

Steve Mason: 

The final sequence in this movie is so emotional. I mean, it really gets me. I think it gets everybody that watches CODA. Frank's daughter, Ruby, gets out of the car and there's this group hug. It's like someone's leaving this tight-knit family unit for the first time. Then, you have one spoken word and it's the word, "Go." It is such a beautiful, emotional moment. Tell me about this scene for you as an actor. 

Interpreter: 

I was so comfortable with all of these actors and all of the signed dialogue. Up into this one word where I had to use my voice, I was so nervous about, because I didn't know what my voice sounded like. Because I can't hear my fucking voice. What was important is to have a few takes and whatever the best vocal take was, the editors could choose from. 

Interpreter: 

It was odd, so I felt that it was really important for me to feel like Frank owed that to Ruby. Because Frank took away Ruby's life experience and she had to sign her whole life. Now, the roles are reversed and Frank had to really make an effort and use his voice to show his daughter he is on her side. If she hears that, she'll always remember her father's voice, Frank's voice, moving forward while she's off at college. So, that was basically where I was coming from, but it was hard, to let you know. 

Steve Mason: 

You have already won so many film critics awards for your performance and you've earned a SAG Award nomination. The first deaf actor to be nominated for an individual Screen Actors Guild Award. All that stuff means you could be walking on a red carpet at the Oscars. Have you thought about all that stuff? Being at the Academy Awards as a nominee and everything that goes with that? 

Interpreter: 

Really, I'm not thinking too much about it, because there's so many great competitors out there. So many talented actors and so many talented nominees, but to get the SAG nominee was such an honor for me. I'm extremely proud of it, because I've been a member of SAG since 2001. And so, now that they're recognizing me, it really means a lot. 

Interpreter: 

It's hard for me to answer that question and I don't know what to say, but I feel inspired that I'm able to share this spotlight with so many other talented actors. I do truly feel honored to be considered as a peer to them. These are real high level A-list actors. So, I feel very blessed and I have so much respect. To the Power of the Dog, to be nominated alongside him, he's an amazing actor too. And I really love his eyes and his eyes tell you so much. 

Steve Mason: 

Well, listen, we love the movie. We love you in it. We really appreciated having you on the show. It's been really, really cool. Much success, we wish you all the success with everything that's coming up, all the awards and all that stuff. Thank you, thank you for coming on. 

Interpreter: 

Hey, you know, thank you, Steve and Sue. Thank you so much for having me as a part of your team today. It's been fun chatting with you and remember to stay safe out there. 

Sue Kolinsky: 

You got it. 

Steve Mason: 

Thank you, Troy. How cool is that? 

Sue Kolinsky: 

Oh, my god. It was as moving as watching the film, doing this interview with him. What a charming, lovable guy.